Friday, November 25, 2011

Is high end PVP all that different from high end PVE?

Thanks to Syncaine for pointing out the excellent Rooks and Kings videos of truly impressive Eve online encounters.I am no expert on EVE but it is clear that Rooks and Kings are masters of their trade employing extreme theory crafting to come up with builds and strategies that allow a small number of highly co-ordinated ships to take on defeat forces that appear to be far superior to them on paper.

Clarion Call 3 is the best video because it has an epic storyline but  it makes more sense if you watch the sequence in order from Clarion Call 1 to 3. Essentially they have developed a number of precision tanking strategies that enable their small fleets to absorb all the damage that large opposing fleets can throw at them thereby allowing the Rooks and Kings fleet to pick off their enemies one by one.

The thing that struck me most about these videos is how similar the Rooks and Kings approach is to that of high end PVE guilds in other games. The employ extensive theory crafting to min max their builds. They assign and master individual roles. Most telling of all is the dispassionate way they seem to deal with their enemies. There is no evidence of personal animosity here. The opposing forces are  an obstacle to be overcome just like a raid boss in a pve game.

Perhaps Rooks and Kings are unusual in their approach but they are obviously very good at what they do. It suggests to me that high end pvp need not be all that different from high end pve








6 comments:

Max said...

High end pvp is different in the way that you fight human opponents. The strats arenet static. As about animosity - it depends. It mostly used just as another weapon (if trashtalking can upset you and make you worse player why not do it)

The eve pvp is markedly different by the stakes involved. You risk lots more time investment than you usually do in other games .As in this video that story was spanning for almost whole year with a lot of boring activity involved.

mbp said...

Hello Max. Of course you are right about that a human opponent is much more unpredictable than a computer encounter. I guess I was surprised though at how much of Rooks and Kings abilities boiled down to advance planning and preparation just as it would for a PVE encounter. Even when the enemy changes approach they seem to have ready prepared tactics to counter it.

Peri said...

Watching Clarion Call videos I think you have a good point about comparing it to the high end guilds, even PVE ones, in other games.

But I feel there are still differences. From one video to the next they often come across their own tactics from the last video put against them and you dont get that evolving stuff as much in pve.

Other thing is that I dont know if the clarion call 3 story could happen pve. Somehow those events need an open game. could a game writer ever really write pve arcs like this? maybe the battles but I mean the overall events

mbp said...

Good points Clarion. The unpredictability of human opponents forces them to evolve their tactics more quickly than a PVE encounter would. Their analytical approach is similar to that of PVE guilds though. I Wonder if Rooks and Kings are typical of high end PVP or if they are an anomaly.

Anonymous said...

I haven't yet got round to downloading Clarion Call 3, but from the Pantheon example I can say you got to remember they are going in with prior knowledge of the enemy setup. In that respect they are treating it as PVE.

If the enemy had had prior knowledge about R&K's triaged carrier they would have primaried it first, which would had changed the outcome. (As noted in the video's commentary)

Most PVP in Eve is not that planned. Take the tournaments, R&K don't feature so highly there. They aren't allowed to know the enemy config beforehand.


Solbright

mbp said...

Hi Solbright. You are confirming a suspicion I have that Rooks and Kings approach may not be all that typical.

By the way I highly reccommend Clarion Call.